livery yards

I can sympathies with you Alyson, I´m very fortunate to have my own land where my 3 equine can graze in relative safety, I say relative, because as much as you try to keep your animals safe...accidents/incidents happen. I have in the past helped friends and given them temporary grazing, when they have been booted off land & given very little notice to find alternative grazing or not happy with the way stables/fields are used/shared and their own animals have been bullied as a result. I cant stress enough the importance of insuring your own animals for public liability plus....., as long as your own animals are covered by your own insurance, does it really matter what insurance the livery has/has not.? You apparently have little choice to move anywhere at the moment, so as long as you cover your own back surely that will help you sleep better on a night. When I lived over seas I took my horses with me and rented land. The fencing wire was designed from a knitting pattern, the barbed wired lose/broke and in some areas none existent, I asked the landowners permission to sort the fencing at my expense.....I just wanted to sleep at night and be happy knowing my animals were safe. just some things you have to do yourself, grit your teeth Alyson until there´s a chance for you to move. As I said accidents and incidents can happen in the best run establishments insured or not. Good luck, I hope it all works out for you & your ponies soon. Creena

I can sympathies with you Alyson, I´m very fortunate to have my own land where my 3 equine can graze in relative safety, I say relative, because as much as you try to keep your animals safe...accidents/incidents happen. I have in the past helped friends and given them temporary grazing, when they have been booted off land & given very little notice to find alternative grazing or not happy with the way stables/fields are used/shared and their own animals have been bullied as a result. I cant stress enough the importance of insuring your own animals for public liability plus....., as long as your own animals are covered by your own insurance, does it really matter what insurance the livery has/has not.? You apparently have little choice to move anywhere at the moment, so as long as you cover your own back surely that will help you sleep better on a night. When I lived over seas I took my horses with me and rented land. The fencing wire was designed from a knitting pattern, the barbed wired lose/broke and in some areas none existent, I asked the landowners permission to sort the fencing at my expense.....I just wanted to sleep at night and be happy knowing my animals were safe. just some things you have to do yourself, grit your teeth Alyson until there´s a chance for you to move. As I said accidents and incidents can happen in the best run establishments insured or not. Good luck, I hope it all works out for you & your ponies soon. Creena

There are plans to birng in more regulations to licence all livery premises- there are many such premises run on an ad hoc basis - where a collective group share the arrangements, costs, and quasi managment. The danager with over regulation is that it will close down many of the basic livery yards, and increase the costs on those that remain. Adopting a commonsense approach - what would be the cost of third party insurance-, can that be topped up with your own insurance to cover your horse(s). This topic gets quite tangled when you look at different people riding different horses or taking responsibility when others are away. If the livery yard is "so unsafe" move your ponies. If matters can be resolved talk to those that run the stables, the cost of insurance may not be as pro-hibitive as you might think.

hi there, just saw this, really interesting. i agree that they don´t have to be licenced at the moment. if they are running it as a business, they will need the business unsurance etc. we as liveries should have our own insurances. the bit about the fencing etc mary, is that just if they are looking for a grant? if it is not a bhs establishment, i don´t think there is any regs about fencing. i have seen yards with awful fencing. alyson is like many, she can´t afford to rock the boat, if she did and it was closed, her horses are homeless. difficult one.

thanks for your help, i have been trawling around all day today trying to find somewhere else but had no joy... looks like we will be staying put for the meantime, guess i will av to ´shut up n put up´ for a while,

BINGO...........the LEGAL requirements for a Livery Yard,that is done above board and kosher (as it were).
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Legal Requirements
The business name needs to be registered. Planning permission is needed to operate the business. You need
business insurance and personal insurance. Minimum specifications for horse facilities and fencing are set
out by the Department of Agriculture and Food. These regulations need to be adhered to before any grants
are approved.
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It took some finding,I can tell you...but find it I did and many Councils and the BHS are aware that there are many illegal riding and livery establishments setting up around the country that do NOT hold the necessary insurance nor have approved planning permission or operate health and safety orders...and ask person´s that know of any such place´s to report them to their local Authorities so that,necessary action can be taken against the owners of the premises.

The BHS,also recommend that all owners of equine´s boarded at Livery Yards and such,also have the necessary Insurance for their own animals and personal accident injury too.

That´s the best I can do Alyson.....hope it all help´s.

It´s like looking for a needle in a haystack..there are so many loopholes that it´s frightening.....I have found this though which is quite interesting,although I already knew that mandatory licensing of Livery Yard´s is still to be approved.
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Livery Yard Licensing

Livery Yard Licensing will be the result of the recent Animal Welfare Act 2006 - the draft bill published in July 2004 having sparked considerable debate about standards of horse care.

Currently, anyone can open a livery yard regardless of the suitability of their premises or their knowledge and experience of working with horses and ponies.

The Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs estimates that there are approximately 10,000 livery yards in England and Wales, but acknowledges that this could well be an underestimation.

Some responsible Livery Yard owners are approved and registered by the British Horse Society (BHS) and comply with the latest health and safety guidelines.

These BHS approved establishments are insured against public liability, and the welfare of horses and ponies is their main aim. BHS inspectors conduct unannounced annual inspections to ensure that high standards are maintained at the approved establishments.

At present livery yards do not need to be licensed in the UK. This could mean that even basic standards are not always met. However, this is likely to change in the future, and the responsibility will fall upon local authorities to carry out the function of licensing.

From what I´ve just read,I would NO hesitation in moving out.....the reason why they didn´t want you around,when they supposedly had the Insurance people around to assess the roof damage,was likely because they actually HAD NOBODY around and didn´t want you to know otherwise.

I can appreciate that you are struggling to find alternative accomadation for your 3....especially,as the area has a horse population as you so say..but you need to get you names put down on the next availablity at whatever legal and correct yard,that you can find.............whatever you do,take the necessary steps to actively seek new stabling and EVEN if you have to split the ponies up for now,until you can get them in all one place....do it,but just get them out! as soon as you can..please.

I´m going to look into this further,as I want to know the legal side of what these livery yard owners are doing!...anything I find,I´ll post it on this thread.

Please Alyson....seek alternative accomadation as soon as you can,you are playing with fire otherwise...good luck my dear!.

i´m really worried now!!! i have had horses all my life and this has been worrying me for a while since we found out, we actually had a lucky escape as the stable roofs blew off in May, that is when we found out as we were told to keep away while the insurance company came to access the damage and they explained that they were not insured to have liveries only for there own horses, luckily non of the ponies were in the stables at the time, but my poor daughter was in there mucking out...needless to say she was very shocked but thankfully not injured!!, the trouble is where we are it is a very high horse populated area and we struggle to find spaces on yards for 3 ponies altogether, it wouldnt be so bad if the price was reflected accordingly but it is annoying knowing we are paying all that money per week and it is all going in their pocket tax free, dont know what to do ....

Hi Alyson,
I am not a lawyer,but most definately what they are doing,is not law abiding and you and other liveries are definately taking a risk,boarding your horses at this place..what if there was a fire or a break in ?????..or your ponies got injured whilst out grazing or whilst in their stables ??.....No insurance and your the one left to foot the bill for the stable owner´s mistake´s !!.
How they have got away with this so far is beyond me and the Local Council in your area will not be too pleased and will likely shut them down with immediate affect,if this became known to them...you would then be obliged to remove your horses then anyway....so my best and responsible advice to you would be...re-home them elsewhere,that DOES do everything above board and within the Law!......hope that help´s.